Fast Tracks

For the record I ordered a #8 turnout starter kit, plus file, jewelers saw, and track gauge in Code 55. I've now used it to make 5 turnouts, three code 55, and two with Atlas Code 80 stripped from flex. I've mounted three of those to QuickSticks.

Overall, the entire package was quite nice. It started with the impressively packed parts and continued to the clear, video instructions. The effort level overall to make a turnout was about what I expected, in some areas easier, in some areas harder than I expected. Here are my thoughts in no particular order:

Cutting the slots in the PC Board ties to electrically isolate seems rather, well tedious. I've tried a file and a dremel, and both leave marks that show up after painting. I think I'm going to have to fill them back with some sort of glue to get the look I want. Maybe it's a technique thing; but it seems there must be an easier way. Indeed, I ask myself if they could not be sold pre-notched, that is do a normal PC Board etching process as you would to make a computer board with the small grooves etched away. Then slice them into ties. You're probably thinking too many different styles to make right, well, consider this idea with the next point and I think it might work....

I think I'd actually prefer if all the PC Board tie slots were "full length" so rather than cut them prior to building the turnout they can be cut when done. If the QuickSticks were also routed to accommodate this while gluing triming the ties to the exact length would be a final step, done with nippers and quick stick ties as easy guides. As the video demonstraits in cutting off the throwbar this is far easier than cutting 9-12 different lengths to go in the jig. With some clever offsetting this could make my previous idea work better and reduce the number of etching styles significantly.

It does seem to me another PC Board tie is needed "past the frog". I had one rail pop off after I cut it with the jewelers saw, the last PC Board tie delaminated. Since it needs to be grooved in the center there is very little holding on the rail, particularly if you want to leave it long to hook into other track work. Durability is also a huge concern to me as I want to use these on NTrak where hand laid track is seen as fragile. While I can hand solder one in place this messes up the QuickSticks. It seems to me the quicksticks need to be revised to have one more optional PC Board tie at the end, like the H and S ties, and fixtures with an extra slot so people like me can add that one more PC tie.

The "Spray Bomb" is ugly. At least with the paint I used. I was hoping it would be that simple, but no, I'm actually going to have to learn how to use my airbrush.

The jewelers saw seems to "grab" for the first 3-4 cuts, then works real good. When using a new blade cut a bit of scrap rail twice first and it works a ton smoother.

Filing the stock rails is a PITA. I need to get a StockAid tool and try that. I don't have a sander like in the videos, and somehow missed that need before I ordered my kit. I've tried hand files and a dremel, and neither work to my satisfaction and are both quite difficult.

Atlas Code 80 rail works fine in the ME Code 55 fixture (same rail base), and using it in my "Code 40-55" PointForm makes great frogs but crappy points. I just can't get the point ends sharp enough. I'm going to have to find a solution as for my current project I need Code 80 turnouts. I don't know if I just need the Code 83 PointForm (since that is set up for ME Code 83 with a different profile) or what. I think it does have something to do with the shape of the rail. It might be nice for Fast Tracks to develop a one or two page technote on using Atlas Code 80 rail in N scale fixtures.

I'm having only ok luck with Pilobond. I believe I'm following directions (other than handing the next day, rather than 48 hours later). I virtually always have at least one small segment of ties just fall off, even though the others seem quite secure. Again, since durability is a concern this is not sitting well with me. It may be I'm not getting the base of the rail clean enough (left over flux and stuff) since at least one I didn't clean as I wasn't intending to use it in a layout.

I tried acid flux and my kester "no clean" electronics flux. I see no difference on these N Scale parts. Since the kester I can get in pen form it's much more convenient to apply.

The jig does act as a major heat sink. Soldering two bits of flex track together with a rail joiner I can put my iron (80W weller solder station) on the outside of the rail and then touch the solder to the inside of the rail less than a second later, and it flows through the joiner (which has flux in it) perfect. Total time on work 1.5 seconds max. With the jig, even if I leave my iron on the side of the rail for 5 seconds I can't touch the solder to the other side and get it to flow. The aluminum just wicks away too much heat. I wonder if the grooves were cut deeper for the rail, but not the ties, if the heat wouldn't wick away so fast. It would remove the bottom of the rail from being in contact, and just leave the sides. It's not a big deal, I use the small dab of solder on the tip, touch the tip to the PC tie method and it works great, but it would be nice to able to get it to flow under nicely all in one shot.

On the two point rails the videos show filing the little bevel on the ends by the frog. That's quite prototypical, lots of real switches look like that. However, lots also have a flair, like the guard rails. It would be nice if the groove was cut to allow the flair or the straight rail, the flair could be made with the same notches on the end as the guard rails and then you could choose on a switch by switch basis to flair the end or file the bevel on it.

It would be nice if the notches to flair the guard rail were about 2x as deep, for safety.

Has anyone figured out what shades of paint match Atlas Tie Black, or ME Tie Brown? Anyone tried ME rail weathering solution on a switch?

The jig does act as a major heat sink. Soldering two bits of flex track together with a rail joiner I can put my iron (80W weller solder station) on the outside of the rail and then touch the solder to the inside of the rail less than a second later, and it flows through the joiner (which has flux in it) perfect. Total time on work 1.5 seconds max. With the jig, even if I leave my iron on the side of the rail for 5 seconds I can't touch the solder to the other side and get it to flow. The aluminum just wicks away too much heat.

Have you tried putting your soldering iron on the tie instead? That way the heat should go from the tie to the rail before it gets to the fixture.

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Now waiting for a better currency exchange rate before I order.

Doesn't seem to make a difference.

I think the copper is too thin to conduct heat over any distance, plus it hits the bottom of the rail first. No matter how I set my weller (700f-850f, it's a 50W station) or what tip I use I can't get solder to flow from the oppsite side of the rail I have the tip on with the turnout in the fixture.

I'd like more comments on my post. I'm planning to review the fixtures and show my experience with them in a future episode of Reality Reduced. I'm going to make several more turnouts before I do that, this is clearly a product that needs some experience before reviewing. Anything that can help me make a better review is appreciated.

Actually Leo, If your rail is bottoming out, then something is wrong with your fixture. The tool is designed (and I'm sure you know this) so that the rail sits on the pc ties when inserted into the fixture. The grove are only there to guide and keep it in alignment for soldering. I built turnouts using both a Hotip 350W resistance solder tool and a Weller WESD51. Concerning the latter, I followed to the letter the step outlined in the video and got similar results. I used the acid flux and did notice that it was more agressive than the "blue stuff" I used for regular solder jobs, but either will work just fine.

What kind of tip are you using?

Donnell

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Romans 10:9-10

The problem may not be the fixture, it may be the PCB ties are too thin. That would cause the same problem.

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Now waiting for a better currency exchange rate before I order.

You're going to have to explain this one. Too thin? Thickness of the pc tie has nothing to do with heat transfer, but a good heat source and proper technique does...

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Romans 10:9-10

The tool is designed (and I'm sure you know this) so that the rail sits on the pc ties when inserted into the fixture.

If the fixture is designed for 2mm thick ties and he is using 1.6mm ties, this will cause the rail to sit lower in the assembly fixture. Possibly low enough for the rail to be resting on the fixture instead of the rail. This would explain why he can solder two rails together in 1.5 seconds when using a rail joiner and why the heat from the soldering iron isn't heating the rail enough when it's in the fixture.

Does that make more sense?

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Now waiting for a better currency exchange rate before I order.

We have looked at pre-gapping the turnout ties, however the problem is that gaps are required in different locations on each tie and on each type of turnout, so pre-gapping does not seem to be practical. We can pre-gap crossties as the gaps are always in the same location for every tie.

A triangle file is the best option for gapping. Quick and relatively painless.

As for making all of the PCB ties the same lengths and cutting them after finishing the turnout, that is definitely something we would like to do, but it is an expensive modification. You have to appreciate that the assembly fixtures 'evolved' into what they are today. Tim started CAD work nearly six years ago, and really never expected that the business would grow and evolve into what it is today. The fixture design has evolved over time, but as he added more and more files to the CAD library, it became more and more difficult to go back and make changes. At some point along the way he realized that it would be a great time saver if all of the ties were the same length in the fixture, but by then he already had a large library of completed CAD files and going back to modify all of them would be a monumental undertaking.

We have toyed with the idea of just updating some of the CAD files, but doing so will require changes to our PCB ties as well, and the documentation, and our website descriptions and images, etc., etc. In other words no small undertaking.

So for the time being the design is what it is. Perhaps someday we will be in a position to hire an intern or two who can work under Tim to create a version 2.0 of all the fixtures, but I suspect that is some time off.


A couple of points for Pliobond. Be very sure that the adhesive has been given enough time to 'dry' before you assembly the two pieces. There should be no liquid left on the surface.

To help accelerate the cure and improve the bond, apply some heat with your soldering iron along strategic points along the rails. Just slide the tip along the base of the rail and let it dwell on important locations. The adhesive should sizzle a bit, telling you it has been heated up enough to cure.

Pliobond does work, but it does require strict adherence to the instructions for using it. Our turnout video demonstrates the above techniques, and we have just finished shooting new videos that demonstrate how to use Pliobond in much more detail. We hope to have these new videos on our site in early October.


We get this comment often and have always traced the problem back to incorrect soldering techniques. There are three things to keep in mind when soldering in a fixture. First, be sure that the ties are sitting flat on the bottom of the fixture and that the rail is sitting flat on the ties. During soldering you may need to hold the rail down with one finger as you are soldering. Second, be sure you are using the smallest soldering tip possible. We recommend the ST7 chisel tip here. This ensures that the heat is being concentrated on the area that you are soldering. Using a larger tip will result in the tip coming in contact with the fixture. As soon as that happens, the heat will be re-directed into the fixture, rather than onto the part you are soldering. Three, be sure you are using flux and that the flux is only applied to the areas you want to solder. Very much a case of a little dab will do-ya type of approach.

Using a bigger iron is not a solution. A 35W iron is more than adquate as long as you follow the above advice.

We have also just finished shooting a longer, higher quality video that demonstrates these techniques and clearly shows how well soldering in a fixture can work. If you have not watched the soldering video that we have on our website now, I would encourage you to have a look. You will find it here. (A copy of this video should be on your CD, or you can download higher quality version of this video from our site as well.)

If you like you can skip ahead to about the 4 minute mark in the video where Tim demonstrates exactly how to solder in a fixture.

I hope that this has been helpful.

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Cheers!

Ron Warris
Fast Tracks

I can totally appreciate the magnitude of the work. The detail here is rather amazing, when taken across the entire product line.



I've tried a number of things:

Supplied solder (from your starter kit) and acid flux.
Tix solder and Tix flux (as sold by Micro Mark)
Supplied Solder and a Kester No-Clean Flux Pen
My own radio shack small solder (one size bigger than yours, I think) with the kester no-clean.
Radio shack small solder with radio shack flux.

On the iron side I typically use my weller (WED51) with a 1/16" rounded tip, but I have also tried a 1/32" chisel tip and a 1/32" rounded tip. I've tried many joints with it on 850F and 800F, I haven't tried going lower. While it's high wattage, it is digital temperature control, so it's not like its putting out 80W all the time.

I can get none of the combos to flow from the opposite side in the fixture. When soldering on the same side as the iron, truthfully I find them all to work pretty much equally well. I have a small preference for the kester pen, only because I find it easier to control where the flux goes with it.

I am quite happy with the flow on the same side of the fixture though, that seems to work great.

I've decided for my show to do a multi-part review. First, I'm going to order one of your StockAid tools now that I see them back in stock, not having a small belt sander as shown in the videos makes that step way too hard. No review until I have that in hand. I believe though, at least to the construction standards I want that the first 5 turnouts are throw-aways (learn to do it, experiment with paint etc), the next 15 are honing your skills, and 21+ is where you finally can turn out a perfect product on the first try, start to finish. I'm only on #5 right now myself. So I'm going to do a preliminary review and in the process I'll shoot some extra video of my soldering experience I can post here. Then in another couple of months I'll do a follow up video as I move to install them in my layout.

I really do think this is a great product. I've got to believe the thing holding it back from a lot of people is the economics; obviously if you need 8 turnouts in 4 sizes it's a bit expensive to purchase all of the jigs. For all the quibbles and ideas the results are vastly superior to anything else on the market, in my opinion.

FYI, here is what I was talking about:

http://flickr.com/photos/hunter1828/2469980016/

See how they just flair, rather than going out straight.

I have no idea which is actually more common, but I feel like I've seen more done this way in real life....

Leo,

I had the same problems with the fixture acting like a heat sink. For me the gap for the ties are narrower than my soldering tip. I have a smaller point tip, but it doesn't get as hot or work as well as the bigger chisel tip.

So what I did what mill out around the tie to rail areas so I can fit the iron in there. I know FT does this on their Z scale jigs because I used one. Lucky for me I had a mill. It worked fine for me afterwards.

Chris